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So far, I've found two stores that sell Gothic and Lolita clothing in Toronto. Thought I'd share it

http://www.twylitefashion.com/

Located@
4 Kensington Avenue
Toronto Ontario Canada
M5T 2J7

Store office hour:
Monday~Sunday
11:30Am to 6:30Pm

The lady there is really nice, she said her store has been there for the past 10 years.
Curious, does anyone know any other gothic and lolita stores around Toronto, GTA, or Ontario in general?

Nextly, the only other place that sells legit branded Lolita garb is Her Majesty, upstairs of the Blue Banana, also located in Kesington Market

@ Blue Banana Market, 250 Augusta Avenue





Randomly: I had a conversation with a bunch of random people as of lately, do you think Gothic Lolita Fashion is really about the ART of crafting the dresses, as it is in the North American cosplay community, or is it about the BUYING of the (branded) dresses, as it is in the North American Lolitan Community?

To be honest, the Japanese philosophy is, if it looks good, wear it. There's not really a mentality of differentiating between brands.

But how do you ... as fans of anime/manga feel about this oddness?
I've never been to any such stores. . . though, I think of friend of mine does. I'll keep this in mind the next time we meet.

On the subject of fashion. . . it'd be difficult to say. The issue of "crafting fashion" vs. "wearing/presenting fashion" would be a beast of a subject to debate about.

Within North America though, icons of fashion like Michael Jackson and Fred Astaire didn't literally sit down and handmake their daily attire by hand. While the latter of the two is long celebrated for his elegant sense of style both on and off-film, his fashion was actually far more casual than his typically associated top hat and tails, which he actually disliked wearing. His sensibilities were influenced during his time in London by the 'high & refined' social sphere of the theatregoers and his fashion, though casual, still reflected those sensibilities. For his closet, he simply shopped and bought whatever appealed to him.

Influenced by Astaire but also Gene Kelly, James Brown, military attire and more, Michael Jackson is more ambitious and prolific in his fashion. Though, due to his extreme fame, shopping and buying in person was quite difficult for him. He would have an idea of a wardrobe and people would realize it for him. Or they would design something for him and he'd look at it and decide. Fashion for MJ, I suppose is more along the lines of commissioning.

But neither of these two men crafted fashion in the sense of sitting down and assembling the materials by hand.

On that, dance and fashion icon Irene Castle may fit the bill. I say may because I don't know much about Irene Castle other than the Astaire/Rogers film about her and her husband's life. Irene Castle was undoubtedly a fashion icon back in the 1910s. If the film was accurate, then Irene, while struggling to make ends meet with Vernon before their fame, arranged her dresses herself. I suppose here fashion is both crafted and presented but I admit the limits of my knowledge on this and her life.

In fashion, it is about looking and presenting. That's my personal opinion.

In cosplay, however, the crafting itself may be significant. Though, the result is usually paramount, is it not? Whether the cosplayer is well or not.

In the comics world, you either do it well or don't do it at all. Far more harsh and critical than cosplay in anime and manga. I can attest that comics fan would look at cosplays beyond comics and still would retain their biting commentary and criticism. If it's suppose to be funny, they'd laugh the cruel kind of laugh.

But that's all my two cents, anyways.
Shockingly, I heard of an theory regarding Mickey mouse being a tribute to both Fred Astaire and Micheal Jackson. A mouse that moves like Jackson, but dresses like Astaire in his conception as a animation.

Back to the cosplay, there's generally a continuum in my belief of three:
those that craft costumes themselves, those that buy pre-existing clothing matching the costume and modify it in relation to the costume criteria, and those that simply buy the entire costume by commission via ebay etc. This continuum usually only applies to costumes minus weapons/accessories. I suppose it may be able to apply to weapon design, or jewelery design, but in my general knowledge: jewelery is usually bought and modified in accordance, whereas weapons are either commissioned entirely by a props specialist, or made by the seamstress/tailor too.

Seamstesses/Tailors---modifiers---commissioners

In the North American Paradigm, there are subsections of cosplayers whom choose to fall under elitist sentiments for falling into the two extreme ends. Extremes include those that believe that making the cosplay makes them better than those who don't, those that believe that because they can purchase a cosplay at any price makes them better than those who have to labour to make it themselves.

I find that elitism is inevitable in the actual fashion world too, but in costume construction, it is a strange concept entirely.

In the Eastern Paradigm, it is to my understanding that the elitists of making a cosplay entirely from scratch does not stand paramount, but instead those that can modify pre-existing clothing to match the costumes stands as an epitome. Why? Because the simple fact that Anime is ultimately derived from fashions that are circulating as of currently in Asia. The west has very different fashion styles than that of the East.

However, within the Genre of Cosplay that is of Lolitan fashions derived from the 18th century Rococo fashions, there are more subset divisions: to list a few include: the Gothic, the Sweet, the Elegant, the Visual Kei.
In North America, the dominant paradigm is that of a pedestal, of brands being higher tier than other brands.
In Asia, there dominant paradigm is, if it looks good: wear it.

I believe the North American sentiments stem from dominant fashion paradigms of e.g. a Louis Vuitton purse being higher tier than say a Coach purse.

To my understanding the Gothic and Lolita paradigm if dividing the brands into higher and lower or lowest tiers would be judged based on price and complexity of lacework and embroidery that goes into the dresses;

However, I have heard the statements that the brand 'Bodyline' is the 'H&M' of Gothic Lolita culture, more often than once. But irony has it that Bodyline is the most ready available outfitters in downtown Toronto as well. Ultimately higher tier dressmakers include but are not limited to: Baby the Stars Shine Bright (or just known as Baby!), Atelier Boz, Alice and the Pirates.

I have a problem with this tier system, knowing fully well that the above brands also provide their own sewing magazines, therefore any gothic lolita in Japan whom has knowledge of sewing can spend virtually 20 CDN dollars on fabric and then make equivalent worth 300 CDN dollar dresses themselves, breaks the tier system easily.

Then comes the age old argument: why make it when you can buy it?

Because it's goddamn pricey! But this is a niche fashion, so it can not be helped.

Some prefer to consider Lolita fashion different than cosplay, because cosplay is ultimately a costume, whereas Lolita is a life style and clothing fashion in it's own right.
Mickey Mouse as a tribute to Fred Astaire and Michael Jackson. . . well, the problem with that is the latter of the two was born decades after the creation of the cartoon character.

On Fred Astaire and Mickey Mouse:

Graham Greene Wrote:Mr. Astaire is the nearest approach we are ever likely to have to a human Mickey Mouse; he might have been drawn by Mr. Walt Disney, with his quick physical wit, his incredible agility. He belongs to a fantasy world almost as free as Mickey's from the law of Gravity.

But as for Mickey Mouse's creation to be influenced by Astaire. . . I'm skeptical.

In the 1920s, Fred and his sister Adele were performing Broadway in London where the duo became famous and acclaimed. Either Walt Disney was in London during the decade or followed Fred's performances in New York prior, before Astaire became widely renowned for his live performing in America, at least beyond the audience of Broadway and Vaudeville.

On fashion and cosplay, what should be the relationship? That cosplay is a subset of fashion or are they two distinct entities that should not be related to one another? Lifestyles?

In cosplay, it seems that the culture for the anime/manga cosplay is far more. . . developed than the comics cosplay. I don't refer to the cosplay itself, but more to the mind behind it. Though, I can't comment on sci-fi cosplay, such as Star Trek and Star Wars. They arguably have a longer history than anime/manga. Emphasis on 'arguably'.

But I can shed light on one particular fashion icon and the time he lived in.

Fred Astaire acquired his sense of fashion in the 1920s while he spent his time performing in Great Britain, particularly London.

His main influence was the then Duke of Windsor (Edward something). Due to his position, the Duke was expected to be formally dressed and had various formal outfits for specific occasions. But the Duke hated to dress so 'stiffly'. He tried to dress in 'soft clothes' as much as he can, popularizing 'the dinner jacket and the pleated-front formal shirt' with a turndown collar'. For royal formality, these were indeed casual clothes. This was noted to be 70 years before Armani broke the rigid conventions of male dress from the Victorian age.

The Duke's style was called "chic dégagé" -- 'free' or 'at ease'. There were times, though, when he mixed and compromised between both. Astaire celebrated him for that, taking after tim.

During Astaire's time, fashion was set by those who were of upper class or were well off. Dressing fashionably meant you dressed like them.

And the most photographed or film-shown famous people had significant influence on the masses.

According to Liza Minnelli, even the Duke's fashion influenced the Hollywood celebrities. Fashion in Great Britain would ultimately be 'imported' to America.

The economic Depression separated "those who could not afford to dress well from the people who had money". The rich sort of continued what the Duke did, but by the 1930s, America was considered one of the best dressed in terms of men in the world, so much so that Europe's fashoin were beginning to be influenced by the well-admired actors in American film.

So, in a way, to be fashionable, you had to be able to buy the best clothes.

Describing Fred Astaire's fashion style, it would be the same chic dégagé but he had a very, very charming mix adding to that -- he had the air, the impression of a sophisticated, refined and elegant gentleman of the aristocracy; he had a casualness, a nonchalance; and he was one of most unpretentious persons you'd ever meet, and not just in terms as a celebrity or famed song-and-dance man.

Refined and elegant; easy and casual; and genuine. A perfect mix for the people to admire, and more importantly, desire to emulate, to be like Fred Astaire.

He never wore clothes because it was fashionable. He wore it because they appealed to him. Nonetheless, Ralph Lauren and Giorgio Armani admired Astaire and considered him among the best dressed men of his time.

That said, Fred Astaire danced. So a part of his clothing had to be suited for that, preserving his elegant image throughout the routine. He paid attention how the clothes interacted with his body shape, particular attention to his dress coats and how they reacted when he did a move and then when he was in continuous motion.

(Going in a tangent for some minor trivia, in some routines, he shortened his trousers so his socks could be seen more, which would direct the eye to his feet. Gene Kelly took a page from Astaire's book here, but wore loafers, keeping to his blue-collar image. And Michael Jackson took a page from both of them.)

But he had his odd touches. He would substitute the belt with other things, most often a necktie. A plug-cord and a length of scarf were among the items he used as a belt. He even danced wearing them.

Another eccentricity was he would sometimes. . . 'embellish' his clothing. One tailor recalls that Astaire, after being fitted with a coat with 4 gold buttons on each sleeve, he tore one off the sleeves. The 3 and 4 buttons, to the average person, would look used. . . casual. Imitable. Another person recalled that Astaire once stamped all over a new tweed jacket before picking it off, shaking it once, and wearing it.

He had an unusual body -- trim, slim, with long limbs that some people once compared him to a drawn toon. However, the length of his limbs contributed to the elegance of his lines when he danced and still gave off that air when he dressed. No one would look at Astaire and call him 'lanky'.

He selected his clothes, had them tailored and fitted to him, 'modified' them, and then wore whatever he felt like wearing that day.

In the 1950s, fashion changed with the films of Marlon Brando; rock 'n roll, Elvis Presley, and The Beatles.

Popularity.
i didn't realize this was the essay writing thread
Well, fashion courses themselves are technically fancy essay courses, so it's inevitable that a discussion regarding gothic lolita erupts into similar formats.
There's also the issue of whether cosplay is more than fashion -- a lifestyle, if you will.

And at what point does it cease being cosplay.
if you dress like an elf everyday or when you hit up a club then sure call it fashion....otherwise i can't see it being fashion
too many words in this thread. can't picture it in my mind...
yumaya needs to post a pic of herself in these clothing for me to get a good idea of what she's talking about.
go to the cgl community on live journal, you'll find plenty of women in these clothings, or the gta lolita community, that's specific to Toronto maang

http://community.livejournal.com/gta_lolita/
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